Jamie Regrets Promising Claire He Wouldnt Spank Her Again

Where (most of) our favorite alphas
meet—both the guys and the gals!

The annual Alpha Showdown has been going on over at the Vampire Book Gild, and we've been agonizing over some of the choices we've been asked to make on the ballots. It'due south always so difficult to choose between book boy (and daughter) friends, and so unfair that we should even be asked to. Isn't life hard plenty? Can't we merely say they all win?

The other problem with this showdown is that Jamie Fraser isn't a contestant. Seriously—in an alpha contest—the lethal, charismatic, and ruggedly handsome hero of Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series doesn't qualify?!?!? Co-ordinate to a quick Google search, an blastoff is, just to get started: courageous, strong, persistent, a good protector, funny, apprehensive, well educated, generous, loyal, respects the opposite sex, leads through example, lives by his or her principals, and is motivated by potent purpose (here's the consummate list). And I can call up of no better personification of these qualifications than James Alexander Malcolm MacKenzie Fraser.

And then we've been pondering why Jamie Fraser was left off the otherwise stellar list of contestants. To me, he has got everything, seriously Every Unmarried Thing, that Bones ( Night Huntress ) has...except he'due south not an immortal vampire. He'south got a lot of what Jericho Barrons has, except that immortality thing once more, though he's infinitely more than polite and doesn't turn into a animal (all pluses for me, if I'm completely honest, though I won't admit it while rereading Fever ). He's got a lot of what Ethan Sullivan ( Chicagoland Vampires ) has...excepting immortality. When I met Ethan, I thought of him equally "Jamie Lite," because Jamie had already figured out all that romance and humility that Ethan was learning. Reyes Farrow ( Charley Davidson ) has got me all sorts of intrigued correct at present, but I don't know him well enough however, and then far he has nothing on Jamie Fraser...except, you know, immortality.

Who could resist that come-hither expect?

In the midst of our hand wringing almost whom to vote for and whether we'd be technically unfaithful to Jamie if he wasn't on the ballot, nosotros found a fabulous blog post called He is a man and that is no modest thing ! This gave the Jamie-loving Wenches a risk to gush about our favorite alpha right along with all the other estimable candidates.

We had and then much fun talking near the often underrated quality of existence a Homo—not a supe, just a existent man—that we wanted to share. We promise you lot will enjoy our conversation and barely even notice that this is kind of a lazy manner to write a post... (Real life is seriously interfering with our time to write Outlander posts, especially since we're also rereading all the books in the series!) Then we promise you'll allow united states know whether you agree that Jamie Fraser is a true alpha who can hold his own amongst the all-time of the best!

And then click through to read a little fangirling by the Wench Outlanderholics about our favorite human alpha male, Jamie Fraser, Rex of Men. We'll even add some of our favorite pictures of Sam Heughan every bit Jamie in the upcoming Starz TV series scheduled for August in the U.S. (Which we must say CANNOT come soon plenty to suit any of us!!)

Monica shares Outlander Italia's fan art with u.s.a.!

Information technology's always a treat to conversation with other Outlanderholics online. Since we alive in vastly different time zones, information technology's hard for anybody to join in. Here we managed to get comments from both sometime and new fans: Wench Merit, a fan of many years, Wench Kathi, a more recent convert who just finished reading the entire series for the second time, and Wenches Angela and Beta, who are currently reading the later books in the series for the first fourth dimension. We were joined by a couple of guest Wenches in diverse stages of conversion: new diehard fan Diane, who squees with the states regularly over every new reason she loves the books, and seasoned fan Monica, who feeds our addiction with a steady stream of news and eye candy from the TV testify. And concluding but possibly most interestingly, there was one fan who wishes to remain bearding. She was brave and honest enough to join our give-and-take, just is a scrap reluctant to confront the hardcore zeal of Jamie's huge fanbase that is currently verra restless for more Outlander. We'll call her the Outlander Holdout.

Could we convince the Outlander Holdout to finish the books? Could we all hold that Jamie belongs in an blastoff competition? Here'south what we had to say later on reading the first-class blog post about Jamie:

Diane: OMG! All those reasons and more! All of those [things he did] were to either proceed Claire safe or make her happy. He put her before himself every single time. He is so many things, and he is a man through and through!

Be careful! And stay away from Geillis Duncan...
I dinna desire ye anywhere about her, Sassenach.

OH: I'm a little surprised the infamous spanking is on this listing haha.

Diane: Haha I was also, oh the controversy! Lol

Merit: This is and then skillful. And I think he is more Alpha than the others considering he is human, has no superpowers or paranormal magic. But he enchants us anyhow.

Diane: ^THIS! SO THIS!^

OH: I gauge it'south simply a matter of taste. He'southward a sweet guy, but he doesn't actually rev my engine much. I mean, he's dreamy. Merely nothing virtually him stands out to me, I judge? I will say since Sam was bandage, I have been EXTRA in love with the idea of Jamie lol. I centre Sam.

Kathi: OH, yesterday you mentioned that Jamie didn't do much for you lot, and maybe that was because yous'd merely read one book...

On ane hand, I don't think y'all tin actually know Jamie based on i book, at least not why we babble on and on most him. I fell in love with him in that book, but over the years I accept watched him go then much more. To me, lots of that stuff I love in other books is here in one serial. Those gut-wrenching feels from Megan Hart, those incredibly romantic moments from Nighttime Huntress, bravery and badassness from whatever number of our faves. Over the course of the books, nosotros see Jamie do many, many of the near endearing, painful, brave, and tender things. We feel him become through them, we help him go through them. And that makes him who he is.

On the other hand, he is a human. He's not a fantasy, and yous've said you similar fantasy. (Well, a human being with Jamie'due south level of "emotional literacy" might seem a scrap of a fantasy to some, but that's a different word.) Plus he exhibited all these characteristics in book one, he was just immature, like white zinfandel instead of aged cabernet savignon. It's not similar he became someone different in later books, simply someone more. Someone whose patience, sacrifice, endurance, and integrity molded him into a cute work of art—simply not someone essentially different. So if he didn't flip your switch in book 1 enough to keep reading, and our endless fangirling hasn't convinced you lot, peradventure it isn't worth slogging through the residual of the books to know him better. Then I don't take to share him with nevertheless another woman (!), and you withal get to relish Sam'southward portrayal of him.

Like this!

Looking back, I wouldn't say I knew Ethan Sullivan after reading only the first book. Merely I did figure out enough about him to know I wanted to keep reading. Jamie's like that for me, just in a whole lot more detail. We run across his essential nature, more or less, in the beginning and then he learns lessons and improves upon the original. But if the author can't grab you lot by the end of the first volume, why not continue to i who can? I never got past volume one of Kate Daniels's series, and somehow my life goes on. I practice love to read near why others like her, but something was definitely missing for me that kept me from getting emotionally attached to her.

I am kind of embarrassed to be such a one-annotation horn lately, but not enough to cease. A new book plus a Boob tube show are just too much for me to keep quiet most. I'm just glad in that location are a few others here who are similarly obsessed, and I hope those who aren't don't get as well annoyed. I await forward to future fangirling nigh some of the new guys in the alpha showdown I haven't met yet. Because one mean solar day I really will be able to read another books than Outlander. Perhaps.

But in the concurrently…Jamie, sigh. :-)

Diane: I have to agree with Kathi, Jamie's growth and experiences are what fabricated him THE man. What happened to him should have broken him and would have cleaved whatsoever other man (and almost did break him), but Claire knew what kind of man he was and would not allow his spirit be broken. He is soft, difficult, cold, menacing, brutal, proud, killer, and a man who would put not simply his cloak over a puddle—just his trunk also—for his adult female to walk over. Chivalry is not dead with his man. He dominates with his presence alone, without even speaking a give-and-take, and he is feared and respected. If that is not an Alpha male, I don't know what is. He's non a vampire, shifter, fae, or daemon. He is simply a human male doing what he has to practise to survive; he is non a supernatural being who has no reason to fearfulness dying quite merely considering it cannot happen. Death can come and then easily to Jamie, but withal he has no fear of information technology.

With that being said, I beloved my PNR men likewise, but in that location is a fence to be had on what constitutes an Alpha. Jamie is no supernatural, but he tin can wield a hateful sword with the best of them.

Sighing correct along with Kathi!

He can likewise wield a verra braw pitchfork!

Kathi: Oooh, that's something I beloved near the after books, Diane. He dominates with his presence. He is such a calming, unifying, or frightening force, depending on the occasion, just by standing at that place. Or being in the general vicinity. Fifty-fifty though he's merely a man. And, as nosotros become reminded all along, very mortal, and life is fleeting and unpredictable.

Diane: Exactly! In the beginning of The Fiery Cross (Outlander #5), you tin can tell how much he is respected and feared, but at the same fourth dimension, his mere presence is calming to all he knows. No one wants a piece of Jamie or wants to cantankerous him. Pretty damn good and impressive for a mere mortal who does not possess supernatural powers. Lord, I sound obsessed! LOL

Kathi: Well, some of them do want a piece of him, just y'all'll see that in the next volume. The smart ones don't want a slice of him!

OH: I think that might be my trouble.. he'south just then perfect lol. I'chiliad not being sarcastic. But even every apparent "flaw" of his eventually but demonstrates how perfect, noble, and irresistible he is, you know? Which is NOT a bad thing at all. But I similar a lot of my characters genuinely flawed.. like something y'all tin't really do anything near, but you beloved them anyway. Terrible (from Downside Ghosts ) is and then very human too.. but FAR from perfect. (Well... supposed to be... I still retrieve he's perfect.) It's those nicks and dents in the very cloth of these characters' souls that brand me feel for them and desire to read more than about them. Dark and twisted parts of their souls that have no redemption. No silverish lining. In fact, Ethan might be the only exception to my perfection-is-irksome dominion, simply mayhap because he started off FAR from perfect and we slogged our manner there with him lol. And because I think we Run into him as perfect along with Merit At present. Fifty-fifty though he might non be. Nosotros know pride is his weakness, for starters.

There'southward a problem with perfection?!?

That being said, the i-book dominion never works in my experience. I always read at least the get-go two before I form judgments. The first Chicagoland Vampires book was okay, it laid all the background, and in that location was a scrap that kept me going until I was hooked. Fever was simply okay for me until the very final couple of chapters of Darkfever, when I got hooked. So on and so along. Which is why I tin't say what it is about the Outlander series that never made me option up the second book (which I read half of) again. I will definitely be enjoying the TV serial though, so you'll have to put up with my completely off, non-book-fan commentary. :-) Mainly considering Sam has already got me fangirling Difficult over his version of Jamie.

Diane: I volition exist okay with that, OH! I bet you go dorsum to the book series after you start the testify! Jamie is flawed and majorly so, only information technology is how he handles situations that make him so special. I approximate yous would have to read more than virtually him in later books to get what we hateful. He is difficult to explain, really.

Monica: Jamie Fraser: The King of Men. I mean, I read A LOT. I have fallen for many characters, and they are usually the typical and stereotyped alpha male (and nix incorrect with that!), just no one, and I hateful no 1 , is like Jamie. And the thing is, he may seem perfect or as well sweet, just he's real, he comes from a real time, and he lives in a real contest. Jamie Fraser has his own category, and I've never loved whatever other fictional character like him. The closest to Jamie'south personality is Bones from Jeaniene Frost's Dark Huntress, and that's because Jeaniene loves Diana and the Outlander serial. Eight books of an epic journey. Likewise, the Outlander series is more Jamie & Claire's story. They're almost lx years old in the last [nigh recent] volume. Many readers accept had difficulties with this series because they mistakenly remember it is a romance and they expect more sex, more sweetness-talk moments, and all that kind of stuff you normally read in a typical romance. But that isn't Outlander. It'southward....it'south...idk...more than that. I'm very jealous and possessive of this series, simply at the same time I hope that, with the upcoming Boob tube series, many more fans will fall in love with this epic book series. Besides...the spanking scene....bring it on, baby! I'm dying to run across Sam & Cait in that scene! And the wedding. And the first nighttime after the nuptials. And...okay, I'll shut upwardly! LOL

Angela: Interesting, OH. Encounter, I call back Jamie is flawed. The more you get to know him and experience some of the agonizing decisions he has had to make, yous realise he'due south not then perfect. Imagine knowing the hereafter and also knowing that you have failed to change information technology. Imagine realising that you tin can't alter it. Part of the essence of the series for me is that Jamie is a survivor. He has had horrible, horrible things done to him and still he lives. Of course he has to, but it just makes him endeared to me. There is 1 scene as well in A Breath of Snow and Ashes (Outlander #vi) that shows that Jamie is also a killer. When y'all see these darker sides of his personality, to me he isn't perfect. I like that he feels more realistic to me. I never got into Chicagoland Vampires, because I don't like my characters then sleeky. That'due south how I found Ethan, and I read the kickoff three books. Isn't it funny how nosotros read the aforementioned things, yet our perspectives can exist so unlike?! I also like that Jamie doesn't have a super ability, but man, can he fight.

Diane: Oh, hell yeah, he can fight! I constitute him to exist very flawed as well. Between bootlegging and basically treason, in a way of speaking. Realistic is a corking way to describe him, he is a real human being! After all he endured, yous have a soft spot for him, and it kind of blinds you to how ruthless he can exist, or rather makes you empathize him better. Claire gets him, and then do I.

OH: Angela, I recollect you're the beginning person to tell me Jamie changes the more than you get to know him! Which actually inspires 1 to read on. Hehe. And the human/non-supernatural thing has null to do with information technology, since Terrible is one of my absolute faves (and a manifestly ol' human guy) and uses his fists in all his fighting in a very human way. That doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I like Jamie. I am merely non completely in flove with him like the residual of y'all are. Plus the paragraphs and paragraphs of his virtues and "flaws" I've come across are a wee bit repetitive lol. Might have gotten my fill from those. :-P Although, I will add together, Jamie was my favorite thing about the books. Claire...non and so much.

I am definitely looking forward to the Boob tube series, though. And like Diane said, I'll probably exist inspired to keep reading after I get a taste of it on screen!

I know where I'll be...

Angela: That's expert to know. It's hard to explicate him to you, because I think books four and 6 were my favourites. Kathi was my wingman, as I couldn't accept read through Dragonfly in Amber or The Peppery Cross without her (Kathi, I'm serious btw). But on reflection, the management of those two books that I found the hardest to read does make sense in the long run.

Kathi: I'one thousand so glad you think it was worth not giving up on these books, Angela! Y'all're why I wrote A Tribute to The Fiery Cross . Trying to come up with reasons why you needed to keep reading helped me enjoy my reread of that book so much more than my get-go read, so thank You!

Diane: I am still having a hard time with The Fiery Cross, simply once I get through the longest day in history I think all will be well! So I have been told. My mum is on Drums of Fall (Outlander #four) correct now, so I'd better get going on it or we volition be on the same book at the same time—merely that might not exist a bad thing.

Kathi: Jamie has screwed upwards big time, he is definitely flawed. But he learns from his mistakes, and he definitely owns them and tries to make apology. He is such an interesting mix of ruthless killer and deeply caring lover, parent, grandparent, friend, laird. I love how in sync he and Claire become over the years. When they encounter a threat, they know how to read each other's signals and piece of work as a team, yet he is always mindful that he kills to protect the vow she made every bit a physician. The way he protects her is a-maze-ing to me, and more so over the years, in ways I'd have never predicted. Anyhow...I felt kind of the same about Ethan, Angela. I do like Chicagoland Vampires very much, and I do read all the books, merely the particular is missing for me. I don't know the characters like I know Claire and Jamie. The story is "painted with broader brush strokes," but I do see lots of similarities in Ethan and Jamie.

Given that Jamie was in his mid 20s in Dragonfly in Bister, I do call back he changes immensely afterwards that. But however, he's Jamie to me. And I don't run into him becoming anything I didn't run into the seeds of dorsum in his early on years. (And yet I don't recollect either Jamie or Claire would have become all that they became without each other.) But thank heavens he got better at formulating winnable strategies before jumping into the center of things! I recall older Jamie'southward hard-won wisdom is incredibly sexy.

Younger Jamie isn't bad either...

Kathi: Diane, just retrieve that Claire and Jamie don't become much time to relax and enjoy themselves in this series. Other than their idyll at Lallybroch in Outlander, The Fiery Cantankerous is kind of information technology. That makes The Fiery Cross less exciting—and therefore slower—to read, merely there's also a lot to enjoy. Then just remember of it that way! They all get to exist together and be a family for a while. BTW, there's another verra long day as well. <g> Good luck! When that book's over, the shit hits the fan pretty fast...if that helps inspire you to read faster. ;-)

Angela: ^That^ does it ever. Diane, book six is really, really adept. It has so many WTF moments: angst, drama, and a few reveals that are surprising.

Diane: Thank you, ladies, I am in it for the long booty. I similar the details we get almost the characters. Some characters are and then secretive information technology is like pulling teeth to know something about them. I volition await at The Fiery Cross similar they are getting some relaxing moments.

Beta: Oh man, I missed out on such an amazing chat! I've been nodding my caput in understanding as I read the reasons for why Jamie is Alpha all the way. I think Google must've read the Outlander serial and based the clarification of an Alpha on that...and the other three gentlemen on my Top 4 listing. I have to say that I hold with OH about existence surprised that the infamous spanking made the list. Don't go me wrong, even though I hated information technology, I understood why he did it, considering the times (and and then did Claire, afterwards). But I can't say that I would've used that scene as an example of what makes a human being, a man. But I imagine that non many men in those days would've promised not to spank her ever over again, let solitary to keep that promise.

One of the things that makes Jamie so perfect is that he's non perfect; he grows and he learns from his mistakes and learns past paying attention to the people around him. He too goes with his gut feeling no affair what other people say, and his gut feeling is often wise. Among other things, he's an honorable and a loyal human being, especially to the people he loves, and especially to the woman he loves and respects.

Anyway, I concur with and then many things that have been said here, but whether we recall he'southward Alpha Showdown textile or non, I'm non so sure Jamie would want to be a contestant. He has nothing to prove to anyone. Equally long as he gets to exist Claire'south homo, he's the happiest.

"Only here," he said, so softly I could barely hear him, "here in the dark, with you…I have no name."
~ Voyager

Kathi: Merit commented last night that this thread might make a expert web log postal service, and we've been worrying that we didn't have fourth dimension to write web log posts, so hmmmm. In the concurrently, squeeeee! Here's a overnice new photo of Cait and Sam that Monica shared!! Especially overnice of Sam. (Cait still looks a little miffed almost beingness stuck in the past, ha ha.) Yum. That right at that place is alpha extraordinaire Jamie Fraser for me!

Not certain we're gonna survive the anticipation until Baronial...

And so what practice you call up, Saucy Outlanderholics? Exercise yous think Jamie Fraser is the Male monarch of Men Alphas? Or at least high on the listing? Can he hold his own confronting the likes of Barrons, Bones, Ethan, Kate Daniels, and Reyes Farrow in your eye?

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Source: https://thesaucywenchesbookclub.blogspot.com/2014/06/an-alpha-contest-without-jamie-fraser.html

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